[00:00:00] Hi, it's Karen here, founder and owner of Bed and Breakfast Academy. I help aspiring and existing B& B owners to create a B& B lifestyle that you'll love living while attracting guests who become loyal, repeat customers. If you're new to this podcast, hello. I've been running B& B Academy since 2006 and ran my own B& B Hopton House here in Shropshire for 17 years.
Over the years I've trained hundreds of aspiring B& B owners to achieve their dreams. I now offer two online on demand courses. The first is a shorter workshop designed for those of you who are just starting to explore the idea of running a B& B. Wondering if it's the right fit for you and what it actually entails.
The second is my full online course which covers everything you need to know about starting, buying, running and marketing your own B& B. In today's episode of the podcast, I'm delighted to catch up with Kate [00:01:00] O'Donovan. Kate, along with her mum, took my course back in 2018 and now runs Maple Bank B& B in the beautiful UK Lake District.
What's always impressed me about Kate, like so many of my students, is the thought and care she's put into creating an exceptional guest experience. This is something I cover in detail in the first module of my course, getting really clear on how you want your guests to feel about you as a B& B owner and as a guest.
And about their entire stay with you. It is such an important foundation for building a B& B that guests will love. As you'll hear from Kate in this episode, all the work she puts into creating a great guest experience has really paid off. Of course, running a B& B isn't all wine and roses. So we'll also discuss some of the home truths about B& B life.
And if you're curious about what it's [00:02:00] really like to run a B& B, we'll share details about mini B& B work experience Kate is offering for aspiring B& B owners. It's the perfect complement to my online training course. The episode is about an hour long, so grab a coffee or lace up your walking boots, head outside and enjoy.
Hello, Kate, and thank you very much for joining me today on the B& B Academy podcast. Hi, Karen. Nice to see you again. Lovely to see you. So can you start by telling us the name of your B& B and where you're located?
Sure. So, I own Maple Bank Guesthouse. We own a B& B in Braithwaite, which is just Just outside Keswick in the Lake District.
Beautiful view across the fells and very convenient because the village has lots of different things that we can offer to, to our guests. Fabulous. So, are you from [00:03:00] the area? What drew you to that particular area, that B& B? No, I'm not from the area. I'm an army kid, so no fixed abode. I spent a week after having made the decision that this is, this was the time to do it back in 2018.
And I spent a week traveling around the UK with my mum and we stayed in various different places. to both understand a B& B, understand the district and the area, but also to view B& Bs. And we went to all the places that we've loved in the UK, from South Cornwall all the way up to Scotland. And we decided on the Lake District because it's all round business, all year round business.
I have family that live near us and I love the sea and I love the mountains and Cumbria offers me both. Unfortunately the midges love me, so I couldn't go to Scotland. I would love to have gone to the west coast of Scotland but they can smell me about five miles south of the [00:04:00] border. So Scotland was out and so Cumbria is often known as Little Scotland.
And that's why we ended up here.
And it's quite close to Scotland as well, you can always pop over the border in non Middle
Eastern, can't you? Absolutely, yeah, with, you know, 50 minutes drive up, not, not far at all. And as a result, our sort of base of, of getting guests from a sort of three, three hours drive means that we get Scotland, we get North of England, we get the Midlands and we get the North East.
It's a wide sort of range of places that people come from.
And travel is really good. You know, the motorways are really good. You might not be a fan of the M6, but all the other travel links are good.
, you're quite close to the motorway there, aren't you?
Being close to the motorway as such. Yeah. One of the problems we always have with Shropshire is we're an hour from any motorway. Yeah, . Which makes it a bit more inaccessible for people, I think.
Yeah, we're 25 minutes from the motorway, 25 minutes from the train [00:05:00] station. You can travel up through the lakes, you can fly in, quite a lot of people sometimes fly into Manchester and then get the train through you can get the train to Penrith from Scotland, from the east coast, from down south you can get a train from Liverpool, and there's a bus service that's really good for tourists and visitors.
So it's, it's good all connections all year round. It's good drawing ground for guests and it's all year round business. So that was the main reason why.
Okay. Yeah. It sounds like a fabulous location for a B& B. With Shropshire, we, we miss that all year round. year round, you know, we would get to sort of the end of October half term and it'd be like someone switched the B and B button.
Yeah.
And that would start again in February if we were lucky, but quite often it's a solid day. So, you know, that's a great advantage. How many rooms do you have? We have seven letting rooms now. Yeah. Wow. That's quite that's quite a big business, isn't it?
Yeah, , we had six when we took on and then we developed the last room last year.
And also being all year [00:06:00] round business, it also means that we're past that register, that level as well. So yeah, we're a big business now, a small, medium sized business, but for B& B, yes, it's, it's a substantial business now.
Yeah. Okay. So what inspired you to start? Well, not start because you didn't start it, but you sort of, you bought it as a, an existing business, didn't you?
Yes. Maple Bank's been a B& B since the 1950s. Wow. So, it's a lovely old Victorian Edwardian Victorian house built in 1907. And it was built for the Dunlop Tyre family.
Okay.
And it was privately owned up until the 1950s and then converted into B& Bs. Bedrooms were converted and then sort of 30 odd years ago, bathrooms were put in.
So as the world of B& Bs changed from being locked out during the day and having breakfast at all at eight o'clock and sharing one bathroom, that all changed about 30 odd years [00:07:00] ago. And everybody wanted on sweets, et cetera. So that was done then. But I, it's going to sound really daft, but I fell in love with a TV show called the Gilmore Girls.
Which came out, I think it was in 2000, and it's a story of three generations of family. And the middle daughter Lorelei ends up running an inn. But her dream is to always own her own inn. She ends up owning the Dragonfly Inn and her mum helps her and she has a daughter. She's a single mum. And I just really love the concept of giving people a memory, which sounds really daft, but having sort of worked in the corporate world for a long time, you know, you get to five o'clock on a Friday and you're still facing a little bit.
more extra time at your desk and if you are going away for the weekend you rock up somewhere and you're stressed and you don't know where to go and you don't know where to eat and if you've got a dog you've got to feed it and you know can you have a drink for supper or have you got to go and find something [00:08:00] and then oh we've only got Saturday really so we better get up early and we better get out and enjoy it and you know.
You sort of see that if you help somebody relax and chill and create a memory, it's, it's, it's something quite wonderful, I think. And I've been lucky enough to stay in lots of different places and do lots of different things over the years. And I've always felt immensely grateful when I've left somewhere and I think, oh, that was a really lovely weekend.
And it may have been just because, I don't know, my dog stubbed its toe or I needed some aspirin or actually this is great. I just can walk to the pub and I don't have to worry about taxis. And it's little things I think that help people. And I just, the TV show gave me that thought and I just loved it.
And then after my dad died, my mum and I have always been quite good pals. And I just thought it would be nice to actually do something with her rather than wait till she dies and then I go and do it. And that's what we did. We merged our [00:09:00] homes. And I look after the inside of the house and she's head gardener for the outside.
Oh, fabulous. Yeah. So we're a good team. It's a really good point about the memories. I mean, I often talk about running a B& B and how I, I actually hated early mornings , and didn't like cleaning. And there's quite a few elements of running a B& B, which I didn't enjoy, but it's that creating something special for people, isn't it?
Yeah.
And especially when they're coming away for a special occasion like a birthday or an anniversary or for some reason like that and, and then they keep coming back and back and back and you think you've created something that is going to be a lifelong memory for them.
Yeah, it is. The reward is when somebody leaves on a Sunday morning, and they are, they look a different person, and it doesn't matter whether it's.
It's male or female. You'll see the one person that out of the couple will be stressed because they've either left work late or they've the one that's had to organize the child [00:10:00] care or, you know, will their parents be looked after while they're away. And by the Sunday morning, they've had two nice meals out.
They've had two great breakfasts. They've been warm. They've, the lakes itself just,
And it's really rewarding because you just think, someone's gone home feeling better than when they arrived. And we work really hard in the UK. You know, we're renowned across Europe for long hours, long shifts, little holiday. So I do think when somebody rocks up, at your home, you need to respect that and hope that they have a nice time and that they walk away feeling better for it.
And it's a nice feeling to do. And certainly after nearly 30 years in the corporate world, it actually felt nice to give something back, to be honest. And And I think it's really important to be part of that memory. And you're right when people come back and they phone you again and say, I never go back to the same place, but it's just so [00:11:00] nice where you are.
And you know, you feel like you're home from home with a few treats and when your brand is replayed back to you. It's a, it's a nice feeling.
And I think that's really important as a B& B owner is understanding what's going on with your guests. I think on a, on a Friday night when people turn up and it's dark and they've had a long journey and they're quite grumpy, you can, and you spent ages creating this perfect room with the lights on and the cake sitting there and they're like, Oh yeah, it's fine.
And you're thinking, Oh dear, what have I done? You're actually right about that. They come with a whole load of things that got nothing to do with you and their, their stress and they've had a long journey and they may have had a row in the car and then, you're right, and on that Sunday they come and give you a big hug and say goodbye and you've just seen that stress wear off, haven't you?
But yeah, I think it's a really important element of being a B& B owner is, is, is recognizing that in people and everyone comes with their own issues.
They do. And it's not, sometimes [00:12:00] you, it's just nothing that you can do will make it better. But nine times out of 10, the combination of some good sleep and some good food and some fresh air and stepping away from something gives them the space to think about it.
And if, if you. give them the opportunity to not have to worry about where to eat and what to do, and they're warm and they're dry, and their dog's looked after if they've brought one, then suddenly their world feels better. Yeah,
sometimes just looking after people, taking those decisions away are really important, aren't they?
Yeah. Okay. So when did you take the course, the B& B Academy course and what made you sign up for it? So mum and I came
I think it was in 2018 and we had just found Maple Bank and we moved in in September. So I think we came to see you in May. for the weekend. And the reason why I wanted to do it was my background was marketing.
So I had a vague idea of [00:13:00] how I wanted to market it online, but actually your reputation was somebody that did five star, had done it for a long time and you had won lots of awards and you've been interviewed by Jeremy Vine, et cetera. So I wanted the benefit of being able to talk to somebody that had done it.
And actually seeing the whites of someone's eyes who's been through it. And, you know, even if you took away one thing, it's great because that one thing you wouldn't have had.
But
Made me tick a few boxes. It made me stop to do a couple of things It gave me some important heads up and it gave me the reassurance that I wasn't a complete numpty actually going into this With zero experience and also what was really great was at the end of it, you had created this support network that enabled us to after the course to carry on talking to each other.
And not only was that free of cost, but it was, [00:14:00] it's an incredible support network and that's really helpful, you know, and you, you can chat to people that are going through the same thing, whether at the start of the journey, or they've just had a difficult review, or they've had a request that they think is totally unacceptable.
And are you just having a bad day? is the chimp coming out to play, as you would say, or is it a reasonable request? And that's, that was really invaluable. So for me, it was about being around people who were going through the same journey, but also getting your experience, somebody who's been through it.
It's a big difference. And, and we did it before we purchased, which again was our decision. Everybody might do it two years before. We just made the decision in the January, started looking at Easter, saw you in May, went for it in June. And June, I think it was, and then exchanged and completed in
September.
Okay, so there was [00:15:00] still a chance to say no, haven't gone through the course, it's not for me. Yeah, as some people do. I mean, it's one of the things I see as success with the course is when someone goes through it said, Oh, actually, no, it's not something we should be doing. And because it's a much cheaper option to do that, rather than when you signed on the dotted line, and then you've been doing it for two years and think Nope, it's Don't enjoy it.
I think also you were really honest with us all. You know, you said, as you've just said now, you don't like early mornings, you don't like cleaning. I don't think any of us do, but bizarrely when you suddenly it's your business, as opposed to having to get up early to go to work for someone else or having to do your housework when you've also got a day job five days a week, that shifts slightly as well.
I mean, all my friends just thought it was hysterical that I was going to get up at six. You know, I was the girl that got up at half 11 at the weekend. But you know, when you're doing it for yourself and it's something that you're working hard for yourself, it's, it's a very different perspective. But a lot of the things that you [00:16:00] said, most of the things you said, you know, was like, oh gosh, she's being quite honest.
But it really makes you think. And, and that's important. It's a big decision, because it's your home as well as a business, so you're living in that environment. And if you don't want to be around people, and you don't want to talk to people, and you don't want to do certain things, and it's your home, you can't step away from it.
Yeah, I, I, I think that was biggest challenge for me, certainly it was that 24 seven nature of it. And if you did have a guest who was complaining or wasn't happy with things, they're actually sleeping in the room next to you. It's not like when you're in your job, when I was at BA, you know, if I had a bad day, at least I was coming home at the end of it.
And, you know, and different environment with different people and able to forget about it. It's it is very different. It's very important to appreciate that, isn't it? And I think put boundaries in place to make sure that you are protecting your [00:17:00] own mental health and wellbeing, I think.
Yes, definitely.
And, and put the boundaries in place and then stick to them.
Yeah.
So I have, I've recently put in some new boundaries about early check ins which I didn't do before. And it used to drive me nuts when I would say, yeah, okay, check in early. And then they'd rock up three hours later than they said, because they decided to stop for lunch on the way and forgot to tell me.
But boundaries now, they're firmly in place. And actually I'm okay with that, you know, if, if, if you don't like the boundaries then stay somewhere else because they will always be the business. But it is about protecting yourself because when you get that first bad review, it absolutely cuts you to the quick.
But then, as we said earlier, you don't know what else is going on in their life.
Yeah, it's always a bit of a shame when they you feel like they're taking it out on you.
It's heartbreaking.
It's personal. It is personal when you've [00:18:00] created this, this. What should be a wonderful experience for people and all they do is focus on the fact that the tap's dripping or something like that, you know.
And again, also, you know, if the shower doesn't work, have you got a backup? Because actually, as a 24 7, 12 month a day business, Guarantee the shower will die on a Saturday morning, and nobody will get a plumber on a Saturday morning. And it's about how do you then handle that, and deal with it, and manage your own guilt that you're ruining their weekend.
We'll actually know these things happen,
and
it's just the way it is, and it happens for the Hilton. The only difference is, they can stick them in another room, and I don't have that luxury. But I can make alternative arrangements, and then it's You just have to step away and know when to just say, okay, enough, I've done my best.
But I think it's having strategies, strategies in place for knowing, knowing that emergencies are going to happen and [00:19:00] how you're going to deal with it, I think is a huge difference, I
think. And your course flagged all of that. You know, it was, yes, it's great. I watch the Gilmore Girls and isn't it wonderful?
That's Hollywood. There's also reality. And the reality is, you do have to get up at six in the morning. And you do have to deal with a dripping tap. And you do have to, you know, deal with a wet dog that's tramped up the stairs and whatever. So, having those strategies in place, but also, Being told that this will happen.
It's not all a dream. It's really important.
So what makes Maple Bank unique compared to other B& Bs in your area?
Well I think we're very lucky in that in the village of Braithwaite we're not overflowing with B& Bs. My main competitor is Not Dog Friendly, and we are. Mad. We are also an Edwardian, as I said, Edwardian straight Victorian building, [00:20:00] so we're quite different from them.
We also have, I mean these are physical USPs obviously we also have off road parking it's free, which is quite unique for Keswick area. And we also have a really big enclosed garden. So being dog friendly, which the whole of Cumbria is, and being able to offer people a safe place that they can unload, unpack, not worry about a car get the dog out, stick it in the garden.
is really good. So my decision to go dog friendly was because of the experience I've had staying away with my dog. And you know, you don't have to get dressed and walk the streets of Keswick to get to a park for 10 minutes. You can just toddle out in your pajamas and your wellies and then let the dog have a run up, you know, it's half an acre garden.
They can just happily run around and know that it's fully enclosed. So those are the physical aspects. There's also three pubs and a hotel restaurant in the village. You can park the car up [00:21:00] and you don't have to get back in it again to get a meal and have a beer and you can walk out from the house.
So I have guests that come two, three times a year for a week walking and the car doesn't move. So that's, those are the physical aspects, which are nice. And then I think that the sort of the brand emotional aspects are that promote us as a place that's dog welcoming and that we are home from home with a few treats.
So my guests are predominantly walkers or hikers. With half, I'd say 50 percent of them have dogs. We, Don't get stressed if you come into the house and you're dripping with rain, you know, we've got that all set up. You've got a place you can dry off your boots, you've got a place where you can hang everything up.
There's towels, there's wet stuff to wash the dog. And if you just want to walk up to your room and hang your stuff up in the shower and just flop on the bed. I don't have a beautiful canterpane that costs 400. I have nice fluffy [00:22:00] fleeces that get washed after every stay. And you can just chill.
And it's home from home with some treats. And I think that's That's what I've tried to achieve, and I think it's, we're delivering that, and I think that comes across when people stay and with our communications before they stay and on the website. And then, you know, after six and a half years of reviews now, that also comes through in the reviews.
So I, I think that's the main thing, is, is trying to make people chill and relax. With or without a dog, or in a country like environment where you're not feeling worried that you've got a dripping coat and the owner's going to get upset, and, oh, what are we going to do? It's not a problem. You know, this is your home for two, three, four days, and just chill and enjoy it.
Because it'll all get cleaned and it'll all get washed and it'll all be fine. I think what's really standing out for me listening to you here is that a lot of [00:23:00] people come on the course or take the online course thinking about the type of B& B they're going to run. They think about, you know, the number of rooms they're going to have, the type of decoration, what they're going to serve for breakfast, you know, the afternoon tea and that sort of thing.
And what's really standing out for me from what you're saying is you thought very, very carefully about the experience that your guests are going to have rather than, obviously you thought about all those other things as well, but for me, , I'm hearing you talk about the experience. And I just think that is so, so important.
And it's, it's one of the things I do in the online course now is, is a bit different from the classroom course you took, but the whole first section is quite is getting you to think about the experience you want your guests to have, how you want them to to feel whilst they're with you and how they feel when they leave.
And so hats off to you, Kate, for doing that. Well,
, I mean, there are some business things, you know, because I [00:24:00] bought it with my mom. I had to make sure it was big enough to To have owner's quarters, because we're not going to be sharing the same room. So they were logistical things we had to do.
But I think for me, I'm an outdoor girl. I used to ski a lot. I used to go horse riding. I used to go hiking. I walk with my dog. I go sailing when I can. And what was, what, what did I enjoy about coming back to somewhere after a day out? And if I went sightseeing, what did I enjoy when I come out, come back home?
I don't know. And also how did that make me feel? So the last place that I stayed in before we took on the house, and I stayed in this lovely country hotel in the middle of of another lake dis another district park. But I was put in the, what was the old scullery with flagstones and a metal bunk bed for me and the dog.
I mean, we were really treated like s second, third class citizens. And yet this was a place that had beautiful grounds that everyone was allowed to camp in [00:25:00] and children could run around running through the flowerbeds. And it was kind of like, why are you making me fit so bad? Actually, my dog's way better behaved than half the children here.
And it's that feeling of, I didn't, I just didn't feel welcome. And. What did I want at the end of the day? And I wanted to be warm, I wanted to be dry, I wanted to be able to rub the dog down, have a nice hot cup of coffee, slice of cake, hot shower, where am I going to eat and can I have a beer? And then, trying to plan the day.
the decor around it. And to begin with, we did have nice counterpanes, but you know, there's only so many times you can wash a counterpane and then you think, why am I doing this? This is ridiculous. So, you know, they've all gone into storage and I've got nice big fluffy fleeces. And so I was planning it around the experience and I've learned from that.
So hopefully that all comes through. The repeat guests show, show that it does anyway. [00:26:00] So for now it's working.
Yeah. The repeat guests and your reviews obviously show that, you do run the B& B you took it over with your mum, but my understanding is that you run it mainly on your own.
Yep, so the business side is completely me and then I have help that come in and help me do breakfast service when we're full, and help with the cleaning. Mum's in charge of the garden, she's the head gardener, and as she's got older she has a little bit more help with the weeding and stuff we have a lovely man that comes in and mows the lawn, because half of it's on a hill, but yes, so, you know, it's my responsibility to take the bookings, sort the money, do the marketing, cooking, cleaning,
Are there any particular challenges you feel that you might face compared to someone who does run it with a partner or a friend?
Yeah, I mean, there's a financial challenge. So there are some things that there are physically not enough hours in the day for me to do everything. And that's, that's just normal. It's only 24 hours in a day and you do need to sleep. So, [00:27:00] I pay for a gardener and a man to mow the lawn, because I can't do that.
And my accountancy charges are slightly higher because again, I can't sit and do accounts every day or every week. And actually it's not my skill set. So yes, I will pay somebody to do that and I pay them to do the payroll. I don't really want to sit down and have to relearn that every month because if you're not doing it every day, it is hard to figure out paper once a month.
You know, you physically can't retain that, doesn't matter how many notes you write. So it's not worth me stressing about it. Yes, it's a high Accountancy bill, but it goes against VAT, so it pays for itself. And, you know, there are other things. So, I'm not an electrician. I will pay for an electrician. I'm not a plumber but I'm a very good painter.
So there are some things that I'll do, and some things that I won't do. So those, those are financial challenges. Emotionally, mum's been a bit [00:28:00] Great partner, we discuss everything and she always laughs when I sit down and say, I've been thinking, and she's like, oh What's happening now? , in that respect, she's great and sometimes, , if I'm talking about something that isn't her area of expertise, it's just talking it out loud, isn't it, to somebody that's non judgmental.
So that is a challenge if you don't have to have that conversation with because sometimes you just need to bounce those ideas off somebody. And of course having staff brings its challenges as well. So, that's a whole different area you need to learn. And also you've got to trust people that it's your brand and it's your business.
And you're an employer. So, having to trust somebody to look after your guests. Because you're going out for the afternoon. Took me a while, because I built something up. But you need to Make the time to look after yourself, like you were saying, and [00:29:00] have those coping strategies and make , space for yourself.
So yeah, so there are some challenges. Nine times out of ten, if you recognize what they are, work out what you can do, what you want to learn, and what you don't want to learn. You can then get someone else to do it for you. You'll just have to pay them for it. If you're prepared to accept that, then you can, you can do the business on your own.
Yeah. So I guess in summary, it's about you can't necessarily do everything and identifying where your skillset lies and where it doesn't and employing people to do the things that you can't do. Absolutely finances to do it. As I keep saying, I never enjoyed the cleaning.
It's much better for me to employ someone else to do the cleaning and do the marketing side of things, which is something that I really enjoyed and thrived on. But at the same time, it's things like website design, you know, I'm, I'm not a website designer. And so I got someone else in to do my website design because I could spend hours [00:30:00] and hours learning how, but sometimes you have to say, right, it's going to make more sense.
Long term financially and for the business to give it to someone else to do.
Absolutely. I mean, I did 29 I know what a good website looks like, but I can't build it. And yes, I could spend hours and hours learning WordPress, but I didn't see the point. It was more beneficial use of my time in the winter to paint the rooms than it was to set to work and learn WordPress and then get stuck on something.
And it was your recommendation. And I found that I use somebody and. It's brilliant. So yes, I did the photos and I wrote the copy, but she built it and she did it way better than I could ever have managed. And it's got syncing with different online booking companies like booking. com and Expedia Affiliate Network and all these people they sync in with.
I couldn't have done that. And actually, if I had done it and there had been a glitch, oh, the stress, whereas she just did it. That's what her day job [00:31:00] is and she did it and it was great and I just had to feed her through stuff and , I, I update it with the copy, et cetera. And then, , when I needed to link in with MailChimp or I needed to link in with other things or say, can we change XYZ?
Again, far quicker. And the same with SEO. I mean, I know what the benefits of SEO is, but it's a black art. , I would far rather pay a little agency and they couple hundred quid a month and they do my SEO and it's had huge results for me with my website. And I pay, you know, the commissions that you pay to booking.
com are really high, but I have, I am starting to see over the last two years that my direct bookings are increasing and my payout to booking. com has leveled off and is in fact, over the summer, it reduced slightly and I'm happy about that because that means that the SEO is working and it's worth the money each month to pay for that.
So again, it's about [00:32:00] finding the right people to do it and recognizing you can't do everything.
No for those people listening, we don't know what SEO is. It's search engine optimization and it's a way of optimizing your website so that people can actually find it when they do a Google search. Yes. And it is a
black art.
Yeah, funny enough, it's one of the things I really enjoy that it's, it's not for everybody. And it gets blacker and blacker, I think, because things get more and more complicated. So, that's your BNBS really, really useful insight. Thank you. You contacted me because you were talking about a sort of a work experience program for aspiring B& B owners.
Can you explain that to me a bit?
Sure. Well, we've touched on it slightly. Why did I go on your course? And that was because I wanted to talk to somebody who'd been there, got done it and got the rave reviews and the five stars. And there are certain things I think that I would have loved to seen.[00:33:00]
behind the magic curtain, as it were, pull back the curtain from the Wizard of Oz and see, see what's happening. There are certain hacks, you know, some of the people that have worked, in fact, all the people that have worked for me over the last few years, they've all brought in different experience and knowledge and I've gone, oh, that's really great, or oh, even if it's just down to a cleaning product that doesn't smear on a shower door, whatever.
And little quick fixes of how to do things And how to look after a dog in a wet country and things like that and how to get around it. So, I kind of wanted to be able to offer the opportunity for somebody to say, right, if you just wanted to have a little bit of a look, see, see what it's like, what are the hacks that you would do, what have you learned?
Then that was kind of where the work experience program idea came up. If you, if somebody wants to just do that without actually having to work or buy one, then this is an opportunity to talk to somebody on [00:34:00] site.
Okay. And what sort of practical experience would, would they get if they, if they came on this program?
So the thought would be come for three nights, get an earlier check in time, you know, chit chat on check in. answer any immediate questions, have coffee and a cake over that time, and then effectively got three mornings. And so I thought the first each morning, sort of mid morning, late morning, we'd sort of have an hour and a half where we could sit and talk through various things.
The first one would be about understanding The cleaning side of the house we all think we have a clean house, but when you actually have to set to work and clean a room and clean a house for somebody that's paying to, to be there, it is a different ballgame and It was something that you told us on the course, and we, none of us ever believed you.
And if you're doing the course and you hear Karen says it to you, believe her. You know, I'm a dog friendly house, I've had three people stay this year who, three couples who [00:35:00] have all been allergic to dogs, and none of them have reacted. in a house that's full of dogs and that is down to a good cleaning regime, but you can't spend forever because there isn't forever and it's not cost effective.
So how do you get through that? So I think the first section would be around some cleaning ideas. Are you going to own your own laundry? Are you going to rent it? Have you got facilities near you? You know, I've done my own, I've rented and I now use A local laundry system. So what works for you and that might be around a quality decision or it might be around a cost decision or it might be around time based, you know, what works for you.
And what are those benefits, you know, how do you make a bed? Because again, hospital corners are very difficult when you've got to do it very, very quickly every morning for six, seven rooms.
I remember once sorry to interrupt you, I'd I sometimes had guests would ask for blankets and sheets, quite rarely, but I remember this, these guests had asked me if they [00:36:00] could, if I could make the bed up with blankets and sheets, and I'd completely forgotten.
And I showed them to the room. She said, Oh, duvet. I also blankets and sheets. Oh, I'm really sorry. I'll get that sorted for you now. And she stood there and watched me while I made the bed and she turns out she was an ex nurse. So she knew exactly what she was doing in the hospital corners. Yes. But that's not something I would wish on anyone that.
No, no. So yeah, so I think the first session would be around that. We're talking an hour and a half because if you come in also for three days, you want to Make a holiday of it. You don't want to sit and listen to somebody lecturing you the whole time. And then I thought the second session would be on the second day about the food, the breakfast, the menu, suppliers, what you're offering, how do you do it, how do you prepare it, what can you do stuff.
The day before, what storage is like, etc. And again, it's just stuff that I've figured out along the way and some great people that have worked with me. [00:37:00] And then I thought the third day would be if they wanted to stand back in the kitchen and watch whilst I tear around like a lunatic, then they're very welcome.
But also it could be more of a general chit chat. Okay, you've had two days, what questions have you got? And then obviously they can check out after that. So, you know, I'm not suggesting something that's particularly intensive. I've still got a business to run. But it's around sort of those three specific areas and probably an hour and a half.
And then people can head off for lunch after that.
Okay, that sounds great. So it was something I never, I never offered the practical stuff on in the classroom course because there just wasn't enough time to do it in two days. I don't know if you remember the course, but it was pretty intensive, wasn't it?
Yes. Just, just all the theory of it and everything that you needed to know. So it sounds like
health and safety and all that sort of stuff. Yeah.
So it sounds like a, quite a nice compliment to the online course and that people could take the online course and get all the [00:38:00] theory and all the basics there.
And then come and talk to you and just get into a bit more of the practical aspects. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds fabulous. So why do you think it's important for potential BNB owners to really get that real world experience before they dive into doing it themselves?
Well, I think you said it yourself. It's an expensive mistake. If you suddenly get into it, I mean, you know, six weeks after we took over the house. I locked myself in the bathroom and howled for about half an hour.
I thought, oh my god, what have I done? And I just, it was just so overwhelming. But I think everyone does that anyway. If you've come from a completely different environment, it is a shock to the system and nobody's superhuman no matter how hard you try. So there will be a point where you go, Oh God, what have I done?
But aside from that, I think it is an expensive mistake to do. And is this really what you want? You know, it is a very [00:39:00] tying industry. You can't just get up and go away. Unless you shut the bookings down and that's fine. And if you make that decision to do that, then that's. That's great. You can plan it in advance, but I think it's hard work.
It's physical it's demanding but it's also really rewarding and you're your own boss and you don't answer to anybody, but the customers. And if you get your marketing right, you'll get the kind of customers that you want, because they'll deselect themselves if, if what you're putting up online isn't, doesn't appeal to them, then they just won't book with you.
So I, I think it's, it's nice to just. sometimes see something in action and we all talk about work experience for our children. You know, do you really want to go and be a doctor? Do you really want to go and be a massage therapist and work in a care home? Do you really want to go and be a chef and get up at four in the morning and whatever?
Do you really want to go and be a landscape gardener? Because actually you're going to have to work a lot of time in the rain. Do you want to be [00:40:00] a dog walker? Do you, you know, and we encourage our children and our nieces and nephews and godchildren, whatever, to go and try all this work experience and see what it's really like.
So. Why don't we do it ourselves when we're older? It's kind of my feeling anyway. No, it sounds like a fabulous idea. And when I do the training, I try and include the experience of lots of different other people as well as my own experience. Because I think each, there's a real beauty about B& Bs actually, isn't it?
They're very individual. Completely. It's no
magic formula, is there?
No. And, you know, I was thinking about McDonald's hotels. So if, if he, in the good old days the Randolph was a McDonald's hotel. And I think it was the bear in Woodstock was a McDonald's hotel. And you knew when you went to these two, you're going to have exactly the same breakfast and the sausage was going to be in exactly the same spot on the plate.
And the service was going to be the same, but with a B& B, they're just also unique, which I think [00:41:00] why it's quite good to get different people's opinions and also get that practical experience, I think.
Definitely. And also, you know, if you've got a chance to, and can afford to, do your research and go and stay in a B& B.
in Shropshire that's dog friendly, if that's the offering you want, and also go and stay one in Cornwall and stay one in Scotland, , get that feel. , it's boutique B& Bs, absolutely stunning, wonderful, not if you're offering a dog. If you want to have really cracking breakfasts and stuff and , you made all your own bread and everything.
That's great. But if you just want to churn out a quick breakfast, that's also great. But you need to reflect that in your price and you need to understand all of that. And yeah, it's just nice to just have that, I think. That opportunity to perhaps see it in action a bit.
Speaking of dogs, I'm sorry if there's any funny noises.
I've got one sticking her nose at me from under the desk, and the other one's staring at me, so I'm throwing [00:42:00] treats to keep them quiet. Okay, so, it sounds like a really useful program, but so just Talking about B& Bs a bit more generally now, I mean, looking back at your own journey, is there any one piece of advice?
I mean, there's obviously lots of pieces of advice, but is there any one piece of advice you'd give to anyone thinking about starting a B& B?
Be prepared so that you know what you're taking on, but also what you're giving up, so you don't resent it. So, as I said before, I had a lovely job.
I had lovely holidays. I could go and see my friends when I wanted. I can't do this here. You know, and now that we're 12 months of the year I see lovely Facebook posts of my friends going off on holiday. But, , they come and see me now. And we block out the rooms, and we do mates rates, and we all have a great time here.
Again, it's an expensive mistake, so if you end up resenting it, it's not the life for you. I fell in love with the idea in the year 2000, but I didn't get around to it, as I say, 2018. Because it was right for me at the time, and I'd reached that point in my career that I wanted to [00:43:00] change.
When you make the decision, embrace what the positives are, know what the negatives are, and accept that you're happy with those negatives. Otherwise you'll resent the lifestyle that you've chosen.
And I think that's really important because I think I've seen so many people over the years who come into the course and they do have this dream of running a B& B.
You know, I think Country Living do surveys and it's always in the top five. dream businesses that people run and it is understanding, isn't it? There's, there are negatives as, as well. And thinking about those negatives beforehand, it's very important. It's funny, I remember your mum and you really clearly on the course, you were sitting on the left, just two chairs in.
It's I've, I've trained over a thousand. Well, I'm not sure exactly how, but definitely over a thousand people on my courses over the years, over 20 years. And I remember your mum and you very clearly. What? I hope with happy memories. No, no, you were very supportive and you were, you're, [00:44:00] you're obviously You were very supportive of everybody in the group and supportive of the ideas and things, even if you did disagree with me about the time it would take to clean a room.
Oh, you told me it would take an hour and a half and I just didn't believe you. And I will say to everybody now, if you want, if you want to do it properly, by the time you have stripped the room, made it up, cleared out the dirty cups, folded the towels, made up a bed, lifted everything off the bed, done your dodo rails, done your permits.
Your lampshades, your bulbs, your chandeliers, your light fittings, clean the bathroom. You know, you can't just spritz a door, I mean you can do, but I choose not to, I choose to do it properly.
It's the
one criticism that two of my friends who lived and grew up in B& Bs say, you spent too long, and I say, well I don't.
You know, and the proof of the pudding is all the reviews online. This is a dog friendly B& B and it's, [00:45:00] Really, really clean.
Yeah.
But no, I didn't believe you at all. I thought you were talking
rubbish. You
aren't alone. You
know,
I just thought, no. And I remember the first time I had to clean six rooms on my own because I didn't have help for the first six, seven, seven weeks.
And then the people I bought from that still live next door all the time. And they said, you're going to break. You need to find somebody. We're going to put a post on Facebook for you. It's like, okay, at that point I was, I'd already had my howling in the loo. And and they said, yeah, you need help. And it was the right decision.
But I wasn't prepared to compromise, do it right or don't do it at all. Yeah. I mean, I think if you're doing it on your own without any help, then three or four rooms is maximum. And
absolutely.
And again, I didn't believe you.
And I would say maximum for if you're fit and healthy for if you're Wanting a quieter [00:46:00] life, I'd say three, but again, it also balances out, you know, are you buying your business with a mortgage or aren't you, are you going to do eight months of the year or are you going to go for 12 months of the year?
It's that balance. Once we hit four rooms, I get help in breakfast service. Otherwise you're just constantly washing up and cleaning, and then you finish, and then you've got to go and clean the rooms, and then when you finish that, you've got to sort the tea and the cake out, and the next thing, you've got guests arriving, and then you're cooking dinner for yourself, and then you start all over again.
And nobody wants to live in a treadmill.
No., I used to do evening meals and , I had to give it up because I just, I was working from 6. 30 in the morning to 10 at night without a break and seven days a week. And I thought, did I give up 40 hours, 95 weekends off for this?
So we've just started, that's a new thing. We've, we've been doing cold platters, which was something that you talked about
on
the course. But I asked people to give me 24 hours notice. I don't just have the stuff sitting there [00:47:00] in the fridge. I'm not a hotel. But it, it works out well and in the winter now we're offering a stew.
Mashed potatoes and peas and a stew. But again, it's great. I need to know the day before. Chop it all up, stick it in the slow cooker. You know, it's not about offering a three course meal. So that offering there is appropriate to the brand. So a stew only being out with the dog on the hills for the day is actually really nice.
You could bring your own beer and wine in and you can just chill out. And and that works, but it also works for me because I just chuck it in the slow cooker, mashed potatoes and peas. It's easy. But , I couldn't do a proper meal at night. No way.
Okay, so my final question for you well, almost final have you seen any changes in the B& B industry since you started? Any trends that people need to be aware of?
Yeah, I think the main thing is, is people's expectations. [00:48:00] And I would say that was definitely pre and post COVID. We all obviously bust ourselves to make sure that environments were safe and businesses could continue when we all came out of lockdown. But I think that raised expectations in what?
guests expect rather than wishful. So I am very clear that I am a BNB and not a hotel with 24 hour reception. And I try and make that clear in both my confirmation emails, my pre arrival emails and on the website. And it is upfront because the expectation is high. So somebody the other week booked.
To go for a meal at the Michelin star restaurant up the road when they don't take dogs and they wanted to leave the dog in the room. I said, no, it's not policy. You can leave in the room during breakfast because I know that you're in the house, but you're going to be out of the house for three, four hours.
And, you know, if the dog starts being unhappy, then [00:49:00] I have to call you back and you've just forked out 150 quid for a Michelin star meal. You're not going to be happy with me. But that's not my responsibility. That's yours. You've chosen to have that meal. So leave the car. You know, drive there, leave the dog in the car, and at least that way it'd be fine.
And they were fine with that, but the expectation is there, and it's higher. And I think also people expect a B& B to be more like a hotel. When people arrive, I say very much, , welcome to my home. My mum and I live here. This is my room, please don't slam the door at night. And I'm, again, I'm really upfront about that.
This is my home. Because I'm very happy to help and I will always help people choose their walks, where to go, how to get the buses, all that sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, I'm not 24 hours and I can't be, I've got a time deadline to get through the rooms, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I can't sit and plan everybody's day for them after breakfast.[00:50:00]
You know, let's do that briefly. Let's get through it. But you know, don't come and find me. one o'clock and expect me to be there to plan your itinerary. But I think the expectations are that you'll be there. We're driving up late. Can we check in at midnight? You know, all these sorts of things. So I think that's the main difference where people have changed.
And. With that expectation is also the dietary requirements. So if you want to have bell peppers every day with your fruit salad, then you need to bring them with you. Sorry, I had it, we did have a couple that stayed for a week last summer and he was very surprised that we didn't have peppers at breakfast.
I said, well, we don't offer peppers at breakfast. Do you have them in your fridge? I said, no, my mother doesn't like them. So I don't have peppers in my fridge. And that's true. And it was kind of like, if you want bell peppers, there's two supermarkets in Keswick. But it's wrapped around that expectation.
So that's probably the main thing. And then I suppose the only other [00:51:00] thing is that reviews aren't filtered anymore. I always used to write a review for a good experience. If I wasn't happy about something, I'd mention it as I was leaving on the quiet so nobody else could hear.
But now I think people just consider reviews an opportunity to just let rip. If you look on my website now, it says the size of beds, because I'll get a complaint that the bed's too small. It's a standard double. But I have to put the measurements on for what a standard double is. And it's little things like that.
Well, I don't like the room. Can we change? No, it's only seven rooms here. , I'm not the premier in. So you'll get a comment, the bed was too small and we couldn't swap rooms. Well, that's not really appropriate for a review. A review should be, was the room clean? Was the food nice? Did you get friendly service?
The fact that you couldn't change your room in a seven bedroom [00:52:00] B& B is not really a reason for a negative review. No, I do think that's slightly unfiltered now. Sorry, that's two reasons. Sorry.
No, , but I think, you know, that's why it's so important, isn't it to respond appropriately to review and in a professional manner.
Because it's all about, I always say with B& B review responses, it's all about the next 2000 people are going to read your response rather than the person who's just left the review and may not come back because the bed was too small for them. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So I think what I'm hearing from you is, is very much about being very clear in your marketing about what you're offering and what you don't offer.
And I think a lot of people come into it with just wanting to give so much to guests. It's, it's like that sort of, you know, as you talk about check in times over the years I've had so many people say, Oh, I hate having to wait for a doctor check in. I'm going to let guests check in at any [00:53:00] time.
, and then, you know, Two months later, they've contacted me and said, right, check in is now five, between five and seven. It's under promising and over delivering, I
think, isn't it?
Almost.
Absolutely. It's the biggest conversation I have with lovely ladies that work with me now is around early check ins.
So during the course of this podcast, I was supposed to have somebody check in in the last hour. Hence why we keep looking , around the screen and they've not arrived. Yeah, early check ins never arrive early because they're going to, it's a cracking day outside at the moment. It's beautiful weather in the lakes.
It's, it's crisp, it's cold, but it's blue sky and the fells look stunning. And they would have driven into Ketting and gone, let's just, Go and have a quick walk up Lactric or something. And I wouldn't be top of their list to phone and say, I'm so sorry. They don't know that I've made plans to stay in for them.
So now I'm quite firm. And like, [00:54:00] if you want an early check in, you let yourself into the key safe. You do it that way. Yeah, it's, it's that expectation. And if you can over deliver and they arrive in the next 10 minutes and I can say, guess what? I finished doing the podcast and I can check you in early and have you had a nice walk.
And they, they feel appreciated and they're quite happy.
Well, I hope they do turn up eventually, Kate.
They'll be fine. If they follow the sat nav in their car, they're probably driving around the village.
Okay, fabulous. Anything else? We've covered an awful lot today. So thank you very, very much for taking the time to talk with me.
I think the main thing is, is, you know, I'm not setting myself up to know all the answers and to be the expert and to get it all right. Cause I don't. And you know, we all have bad days where you just think, Oh, I should have said that differently. I should have worded that differently. Or that wasn't.
The world's best poached egg or whatever. Which is my single biggest drama and trauma in the kitchen as always. Have I ever done the right poached [00:55:00] egg? But or the best poached egg. So yeah, if, if people are interested, it'd be great. And. you know, hopefully I haven't oversold that.
Okay. No, I don't think so.
I think it's just, this is about when they take my online course, they're getting my experience and some of the experience of people who've been on the course, but you're giving a different perspective, aren't you? And a bit more practical things. That's great. How can people contact you Kate?
So the website has a phone number, both landline and mobile number.
And also email address. So that's probably the best thing, which is just maplebank. co. uk. Maplebank. co. uk. That's fabulous.
, thank you very much.
Well, thank you. Thank you. It's lovely to follow on from the course a few years later.
Lovely to catch up. We, we talked a lot in during the COVID years, didn't we, when we were online a lot and.
Oh, I mean, again, that support network of having other BNB owners going through what we all went through [00:56:00] was just amazing. Because you, you've just. everyone's going through it again. And it's just nice. So yeah, the support network post your course was brilliant. Definitely worth it. Okay. Well, thank you very much.
Okay. Cheers. Bye bye.
I hope you enjoyed listening to my conversation with Kate today and that it's given you a little more insight into what it's really like to run a bed and breakfast. If you'd like to get in touch with Kate, her website is maplebank. co. uk and if you'd like to find out more about my courses, head over to bnbacademy.
co. uk If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss future episodes. You can also sign up for my newsletter on my website to stay updated. Thanks so much for listening. Bye for now.
